I took a drive down to San Jose today to sit down with “The New York Badass” Phil Baroni, and it was more than worth the trip. I walked into AKA as the pros were finishing their workout. Matt Major was mopping up the mats, Hershal Walker was walking out the door and about 10-15 other guys were either working on a few jits moves or coming out of the locker room to go on with their lives. Phil walked over to me, gave me a fist bump (we’ve met before) and said he was gonna shower real quick (I was a bit early). About five minutes later he walked out and we sat down. First thing I noticed was a little blood coming out of his nose and a small cut on the bridge of his nose. Most of my interviews have gone anywhere from 3-6 minutes, I sat with Phil for 35 minutes, 20 of which were on the record and recorded. I hope you guys enjoy it, I certainly did!
MMBB: It’s been rumored that you’re gonna fight Brad Tavares, is it signed or just verbally agreed to?:
Baroni: I agreed to the fight, so it’s a done deal pretty much on my part.
MMBB: You came out here to San Jose to train as opposed to training out in Las Vegas?
Baroni: Yeah, he’s out in Vegas so I just needed to get away. Just focus on my training and forget about everything else, this is an important fight for me and I wanted to get away from all the distractions of home life and just put myself up into the training camp.
MMBB: I talked to Jon Fitch over at the Diaz/Noons fight, he said they always want you to come out here because you win fights when training here compared to training somewhere else, you feel the same way?
Baroni: I’ve done better out here definitely in the past, for a bunch of different reasons. But I have done better training out of AKA so you know, thats why I’m here.
MMBB: Makes sense. A lot of guys online are saying you need to work on your ground game, is that something your working on or do you expect just a stand up fight?
Baroni: I’ve been training mma for 10 years right? So you know, I’m gonna go fight. What I do is what I do and how I fight is how I fight. I’m not gonna pull no rubber guard on the dude and omoplata him.
MMBB: You’re expecting this fight to propel you into better fights, you hoping to get back into title contention sometime?
Baroni: That’ll be next I mean come on, at the end of the day that’s why we’re doing this right? Somewhere deep down inside of all of us we believe that we ah, at least I do and I think in order to be a professional fighter you got to believe that you can…if things are right and you’re doing the right things and they work out that you could be a world champion. I mean I ain’t just doing this for paydays. There are easier paydays than coming in here and bust my ass for eight weeks and then going out there and getting my face busted. I could make more money doing some other shit so, I’m doing this because I still have that dream and hope you know…2002-2005 you know, I was a contender, so I think if I put all my ducks in a row that I can get back into that position. It starts through Brad Tavares and I ain’t looking past him, that was a big problem I’ve had in the past, and I need to beat this guy, you know he’s a solid well rounded fighter. I got to show what I got, when this fight takes place, it’ll show where I stand.
MMBB: Also when I talked to Fitch, he talked about if Koscheck wins the championship, that he’d move up to 185 and wouldn’t want to fight each other. Dana White had a video yesterday, he said he doesn’t give a shit, teammates should fight, and I agree with you, the whole goal is to be a world champion, is there anybody that you’re so close with that you wouldn’t fight, or basically, my theory is if you’re gonna pay me, I’ll knock out my mother!
Baroni: (laughs) I’m not gonna beat up my mom but…(laughs some more), but um you know, I think if there’s millions of dollars on the line, I wouldn’t be your friend if I turned down that fight and you couldn’t get paid that. What kind of person would I be, if you could make a million dollars fighting me, then lets fight dude and afterwards we’ll be friends. I mean those guys have been training together for man 6 or 7 years, day in and day out. Fitch is the captain at AKA and that’s his stance and I don’t disagree with him at all but if it was me, I’d have to go somewhere else and train, to get that money,I want to get that payday and win that belt! You know, but I’m not the captain of the team and I’m not training with Koscheck every day for fucking 6 years so you know, it’s a big difference. I’m not in that position, I don’t have any friends really. Of course I do, Fitch and everyone here is my friend, and I feel comfortable here with this team, but I mean…like I said, you only live once and you got to take the opportunities and maybe a guy like Fitch can go up, he’s as big as me, he can go up and do well at 185. Maybe just as well, maybe better because of his speed and athleticism. I’m not sure what that’s about, but whatever he does he does, it’s Jon Fitch.
MMBB: This weekend we got the big fight, I know you’re at AKA and I know you’re gonna give me the “Cain Velasquez is gonna win,” you really…
Baroni: listen, this is the thing, I told Joe Rogan years ago in, when I was cornering Coleman, where was that? Ireland, in Ireland, we some how…You know I had a couple drinks and that dude came up, Velasquez, and I said dude listen, this guy has the gas tank that nobody has. He has an unbelievable gas tank, like I can’t explain it, you got to see it. They should do some tests on this guy because it’s not fair, he can not get tired. I mean he can’t get tired! I mean I don’t think I would lose any fights if I had that gas tank. I think he’s just blessed with something, and you know, maybe he doesn’t have one punch knock out power, but it doesn’t matter if he hits you 500 times with the same power as the first punch he throws. I mean the guy, anything can happen in a fight, you could get blasted, but he does not slow down, you can’t keep his pace. And he is a great athlete and he’s fast for the weight and he’s technical and he’s got balls you know he’s gully. I just don’t see anyone beating that guy. I think he’ll be champion for a long time, I think he’s gonna do what Fedor did, and I’m on nobodies nut sack you know what I mean, there’s no one that I’m a fan of, but I don’t see any holes in this guys game.
MMBB: I just see the size, I see Brock just taking him down and pounding him out, and I mean I think Cain is definitely the number one contender, but I just think…And I’m not a Brock fan at all! AT ALL, but I just think his size is just too much, and his speed.
Baroni: He’s not faster than Cain, he’s fast but he’s not faster than Cain. And man, in that fight he just showed me that he’s a little bit of a coward, I mean against Carwin.
MMBB: Backing up and kinda cowering?
Baroni: I would never do that, I would never crumble to the ground. I’ve had a lot of guys bombing on me and I’ve never crumbled to the ground to my back, and I don’t think he would have been upset at all if they had stopped that fight, what could he have said? Cain’s gonna do that to him ALL DAY and he’s not gonna get tired. Yeah he’s not that big, but he’s way faster than Carwin and he’s a better athlete, he’s a better wrestler and I’ve been a fan of this guy from day one because I just know what he’s got, that gas tank, and I just don’t see anyone overcoming that.
MMBB: That’s a good prediction, I’m looking forward to the fight, that’s for sure!
Baroni: It’s just because the gas tank, if he had a normal gas tank, you know just in really good shape like a normal human being, he’d definitely lose that fight. But you don’t understand, he’ll be able to keep that pace, he’s gonna keep pushing. The weight ain’t gonna matter, he’s not gonna get tired. I mean you just got to see it to believe it, I’ve been around it before.
MMBB: Lets go to your schedule, a lot of guys noticed, you’re on twitter at 3am saying you’re gonna go for a run, then you’re up at 8 and 11, do you sleep?
Baroni: I don’t know, I’m sick. (laughs). I don’t sleep as much as I should. I got to work on that a little.
MMBB: One guy said you have stripper hours.
Baroni: Yeah, I do (laugh some more), I do. Especially when I was living in Vegas, practice wasn’t until 4 o’clock in the afternoon, practice was mandatory, so you know, here it’s a little better, I’m getting back on a regular schedule, it’s practice at 11 and 12 on alternate days so, I’m a little bit better, maybe like a high priced stripper, I don’t have to work until 4 in the morning.
MMBB: Got to ask, Chael Sonnen got popped, 2007 you got popped for PEDs,
Baroni: Yeah, listen though, I got my samples retested three times by independent labs and they all came back clean. Then they just dropped it, time served, I mean they couldn’t say oh I didn’t do it because I’d probably sue the state, win a million dollars and wouldn’t be standing here getting my ass beat every day, with black eyes. I didn’t pop for steroids, and thats it dude. You’d have to be retarded to take the drugs they said I took. It was like 1984 Ben Johnson shit, why would you take that shit if you wanted to pass a, you know whatever, it doesn’t make a difference.
MMBB: So you’ve always been clean?
Baroni: I fought you know 8 or 10 weeks before in Nevada. Whatever man, I think it was a raw deal, but I have no idea about Chael. I heard something that he maybe have admitted that he has high testosterone levels. Maybe he’s on a hormone replacement therapy, I don’t believe in kicking a guy when he’s down whatever, he did what he had to do and I don’t know what to believe, I really don’t know anything about the situation.
MMBB: What do you think the percentage of guys, Cheick Kongo came out and said he thinks 50% of the guys in mma use some sort of PED.
Baroni: I think the drug testing and stuff is so strict right now, I mean even the UFC tests when you’re out of commission, I mean how are you going to?
MMBB: So if you’re under contract, they test you?
Baroni: If you fight in Europe, they test you, Leben, didn’t he get busted in England or something, somewhere he got busted.
MMBB: Speaking of Leben, did you hear he got a DUI today?
Baroni: Oh well. Sucks, I feel bad. I mean everybody, I mean maybe he had a drink and he got pulled over, I mean thats not cool. Like I said, whatever, maybe, I don’t know the deal, I feel bad for him, it’s not cool, I feel bad for him, I feel bad for the guy, what am I gonna say? He just rebounded, got his career back on track, you know he did what I’m trying to do right now, and you know it’s a sucky situation for him. What were we saying before?
MMBB: We were talking about steroids, we were talking about Velasquez,
Baroni: I don’t know what the hell Cheick Kongo was talking about, there’s no way, the drug testing right now is so strict, you know what I mean, I just can’t see anyone really trying to do it. If it was that easy, I think if it was that easy to get away with it, no one would be getting caught. Throughout history I think it’s been proven that if you do drugs, you don’t automatically win. I think it’s like 95% of the guys that got busted were the losers in fights so, I don’t see it as like you know, I think there are better things you can do than to do that. It’s not a body building show. If I was gonna do a body building show, I’d probably get on everything.
MMBB: Other than your fight coming up, what fight are you looking forward to the most to watch, as a fan?
Baroni: Of course Cain’s fight. I can’t wait to see Koscheck’s fight.
MMBB: You think Koscheck can beat GSP? I mean I think GSP is obviously gonna go for takedowns, it’s just what he does, he doesn’t stand with anybody. I’m thinking rouge knee.
Baroni: Maybe he does stand though this time. I mean GSP is pretty smart, he’s got a bunch of smart guys with him. Who knows what he’s gonna do. I think the fight comes down to wrestling. Koscheck was a NCAA, d1 champion, he took third place with a broken neck, I mean his neck was fused. He wrestled all season with a broken neck. He’s an animal and he’s a winner and he’s a competitor, and I’ve seen him in here training hard. He’s gonna be hard to beat, it’s gonna be an interesting fight, I mean I think this will be GSP’s really his toughest fight, we’ll get to see what he’s made of.
MMBB: Now that you’re here at AKA, the other fight they are looking at is Shields/Kampmann, because Fitch is lobbying for the winner. I think if Shields wins he gets the title shot, but Fitch told me he doesn’t think he deserves it and he wants the winner of Shields/Kampmann fight.
Baroni: If I was Fitch, I don’t know why I would want the winner of that fight because what if Koscheck wins? If one of those guys could knock him off so you don’t have to go to 185? But I don’t know, whatever if he wants that fight. He must feel confident that he can beat Shields. Shields trains here a lot you know, Shields trains here as much if not more than me in the past. He’s been rumbling with Kos and Fitch every day. So he must feel confident he can beat him.
MMBB: I think Kampmann is a tough test for Shields.
Baroni: Kampmann is tough, Kampmann’s a tough test for Shields. I’ve been training with Kampmann for years too. I want to take credit for discovering Kampmann. Someone pulled out of the WFA a long time ago, I called my agent and said hey there’s a really tough guy here visiting from Denmark. I just got done sparring with him this and that, he’s really tough. Javier called him and said sign him and he fought in that show and after that show, he beat a good guy and Joe Silva called him and signed him, so I mean Kampmann. I want to take credit for discovering him, he’s tough and he’s a hard worker and he’s in there every day. Thats gonna be a battle. People don’t think…Kampmann is UFC tested,he’s been in there with some top guys in the UFC and he’s done well. He’s won a lot of fights in the UFC, but people don’t give Shields credit, he’s been fighting around the world, for 10-12 years. He’s been fighting the best guys not in the UFC.
MMBB: Dan Henderson who was basically kicked out of the UFC.
Baroni: Right, the very best guys that aren’t in the UFC. Dan Henderson, you know, who would win, Dan Henderson or Kampmann? It’s a tough fight, you know, the guy has won every world title, he was the Shooto Champion, he was the Rumble on the Rock Champion, the EliteXC Champion, He was the Strikeforce Champion, you know who’s to say he’s not gonna be the UFC Champion? I’m not gonna bet against him, that guys a winner you know. It’s a pedigree and the guy is used to winning, and winning is a habit and sometimes so is losing, and the guys a winner so I can’t go against him, I can’t go against him.
MMBB: I know it’s not your weight class, you probably don’t care as much, you’re looking at guys that you could fight, were you surprised at the result of the Condit/Hardy match up or do you think Hardy was just UFC hype and he’s not that good anyways?
Baroni: No I think Hardy is tough. I’ve seen him over the years, and met him a couple times. I’ve seen him train, he’s tough, solid. He’s solid you know what i mean? He’s working on his ground game because he knows he ain’t a good wrestler. He’s trying to get his jits up to par. Am I surprised? I’m surprised That Condit had enough pop, one punch pop to put him out. Was it the perfect shot right on the button or was it maybe Condit got a little stronger? He looked a little bigger in that fight, to me, I don’t know if anyone noticed it? His shoulders and stuff, he looked a little stronger than he has in the past, he looked a little thicker. He’s young, maybe he’s filling out, I’m not sure. I was just surprised, one punch knock out, you know, on the button. Maybe it was the button, maybe he has really good (inaudible), I just, I thought in the past that Hardy’s chin was solid, I’m not saying that it’s not, but I didn’t think he’d get knocked out with one punch like that. I don’t know if he was overrated, he just went 5 rounds with pound for pound the best fighter in the world, so how can anyone call that overrated?
MMBB: This morning I read that Dana White wants to give Bisping a top 5 opponent in his next fight, I’m looking at the top 5 and I’m saying fuck that, I wanna see him fight Baroni, because when Bisping stand he just does the same combination: jab, jab, straight right, kick.
Baroni: I trained with Bisping when he was getting ready for Dan Henderson. I know what he’s got, you know what I mean, and ah…Who’s the top 5 right now at 185? When they said that, I was thinking who’s the top 5? I put it on my twitter and a couple people responded with their top 5 and I go to myself, man dude, if I win a couple fights I think I’m in the mix with these guys. Nobody is so scary, nobody I don’t think I can hang with, at all!
MMBB: Thats what I think, I think, are you down on the bottom right now working your way up?
Baroni: Yes.
MMBB: Absolutely, but do I think you can beat the guys that are up there? Yeah.
Baroni: Yeah, and not to take anything away from Bisping, but Bisping, Akiyama, those guys, I’d go in there right now and fight those guys. I wouldn’t be hesitant at all, I think I’ve fought better guys in the past. Not to say those guys aren’t really good, but if those are the top 5 guys in the world, I like my, Im feeling a lot happier about my position after I beat Brad Tavares. If I can still fight the way I think I can in my head, I’m hanging with these top 5 guys easy! Chael Sonnen wasn’t shit 6-7 years ago. I went down to Team Quest and trained with him and Lindland and those guys. I didn’t leave there saying oh fuck, Chael Sonnen is an animal. I didn’t think twice about the guy. My friend Trevor who I think is one of the best 185 pounders in the world who just never fucking gets a fight. Trevor Prangley you know, I’ve seen him tear his arm off and tap him twice. Still the same Chael Sonnen, you know he’s a good wrestler and yeah he can gameplan a match up, but it’s still the same dude. I think I’m hanging with those top 5 guys, I feel like I’m gonna be rejuvenated when I beat this guy.
MMBB: NFL just put in some rules not to have head to head hits. They’ve always talked about mma guys getting hit in the head repeatedly and later on in life their going to…Who knows what kind of damage.
Baroni: Yeah.
MMBB: Do you notice that or do you not even think about it?
Baroni: What are you trying to say? you’re talking to me and saying I sound like it?
MMBB: (both of us are laughing). Just trying to get your opinion.
Baroni: (still laughing). What do you mean buddy? I don’t get it. No man, I’m not worried about it. I think I’m like (inaudible) mata, that guys taken beatings and he goes to the Golden Gloves and he’s talking fine, he still has his wits about him. I’m Italian, you know what I mean. I’m a throw back, I’m built a little differently, I’m put together a little differently. I think I’m fine. I’ve taken some of the fucking biggest shots in the game over the years, and um I don’t think about it, you know what I mean, it’s a risk you take. No guts no glory! I mean some dudes jump out of planes, most of the time they don’t die, but once in a blue moon they die. Bungee jumping and all that shit, it’s the same thing. Skiing…Whatever, football, whatever. It’s a risk you have to take. I mean yeah, what the fuck, newsflash fightings bad for you. Yeah the point is to inflict damage on your opponent. I mean they’ve tried to (inaudible) to get it sanctioned and this and that, but it’s fucking terrible for you. And there’s no difference with boxing, getting punched with boxing gloves or whatever. I’ll probably get in trouble for saying this so I’m gonna make it short but fighting is bad for you, and it’s not for everybody, and you don’t have to do it! You can go get a fucking desk job if you want, you don’t have to fight. Go be a waiter or go be an accountant, you’ll never get hit in the head. If you want to do it, there’s a risk, risk/reward, take it if you want.
MMBB: You got any sponsors you want to thank?
Baroni: Right now Affliction is sponsoring me, so I got to thank them. you know, thats about it, I got to win some fights and get some more sponsors. So if you want to Sponsor The New York Badass, I’m accepting offers!
Kevin Wright writes for Monday Morning Black Belt.
